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 Post subject: 18-Hour Boss Fight in FFXI
PostPosted: Tue Aug 26, 2008 2:59 pm  
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Brasson
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Imagine Kael'thas, let's say. The original Kael'thas, the bad-ass in Tempest Keep. Big nasty six stage fight with resurrecting adds, specific strategies, legendary weapons, etc. Imagine knocking him down to zero health, and then he respawns with more adds, new strategies required, and you're low on pots.

And then he does this NINETEEN more times.

Just remember - it could always be worse.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 04, 2008 10:24 pm  
Yvl9921

Joined: Wed Oct 01, 2008 1:06 pm
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They did WHAT TO MY GAME?!

Well, it's not like FFXI is for the feint of heart anyway. But that's still a bit much. It probably looks alot worse to people who are used to this damn easy game, with it's no exp loss, quick levels, and short endgame. I played FFXI for 5 years, and got used to the idea that I would have to play the game seriously for years in order to get the relic gear.

SE has specifically said that things like this, Absolute Virtue (which is a random spawn after killing the equivalent of Illidan, fun times!) and relic gear, were not for casual gamers. But to find enough people willing to waste an entire day on that crosses the line from.... OH WAIT I TOTALLY FORGOT THAT SE IS JAPANESE, NEVER MIND!


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 04, 2008 11:10 pm  
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Krajin
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http://bannable-offenses.blogspot.com/2 ... -news.html

Quote:
So, you've probably noticed that FFXI has been in the news recently.

First, there was a flurry of stories surrounding Pandemonium Warden who was apparently so tough that he actually started kicking players' asses in real life.

I'll be writing about him for the next couple of posts.

It's a whole thing.

But before I get into that, I thought it would be a good idea to go into our newest announcement.

Now, if you're not a FFXI player, you may not have heard a lot about our newest game adjustment. It made the rounds of several major gaming sites, but you may have missed it.

I'll forgive you this time.

If you are a FFXI player, then you're probably reading this in a state of post-orgasmic bliss.

Yes, it's that big.

As the player base in FFXI evolved, we saw a major pattern forming. Players who achieved level 75 tended to merit more than party at lower levels. This created an abundance of high level players, but made lower level partying difficult.

This isn't news for FFXI players. Anyone who has ever had to find a tank or healer for a forming party knows what I'm talking about.

Leader>> Alright... Let's get some more members.
Member1>> Anyone lfg?
Leader>> 17 melee DD... And no healers.
Leader>> Wait... Wait...
Leader>> 18 melee DD.
Member1>> Yeah... I'm gonna go craft.


The party dynamic requires a certain layout of job classes. Because of a lack of lower level players, it was often difficult to fill vital roles.

That was bad.

After carefully considering the problem, the devs decided to do something about it.

I suggested we just delete every player below 75 and change the name to FFXI: Meriting Online.

Apparently, that plan wasn't financially "acceptable".

Instead, the devs came up with the new Level Sync function.

Using this new function, players of any level can party together and their levels will be reduced to the level of a single party member.

Great. You've got 5 members for your party and you need a Bard. Unfortunately, the only Bard is level 47.

One quick button push later and all of your members are temporarily reduced to level 47.

It's beautiful.

You may be asking yourself "But won't you have to go buy new gear when you change levels?"

That's a stupid question. You should be ashamed for even asking it.

Shame.

Of course they thought of that. Your uber high level gear will automatically adjust stats to match your new level.

You can still wear your epic armor of ass kicking + 1 even though you're now level retarded.

The only down side to this part is that now you're going to see Dunes parties in full Ares gear. People with some of the best gear in the game are going to be spending time killing level 16 crabs.

I'm pretty sure that can cause your head to explode.

Still, a little fashion awkwardness aside, this update is an unprecedented level of awesome.

Hey, all you Black Mages stuck lfg around level 55. Those of you who can't get parties because all the parties are fighting Colibri.

A few mouse clicks later and you're getting your party on at level 45.

All of you melee stuck in the doldrums between 40 and 50. Those of you who can't get parties because there are so many melee competing for limited party spots.

A few mouse clicks later and you can join any party at any lower level.

All of you Puppetmasters...

Yeah, you're still screwed.

But now you can not get invited to parties at a variety of levels.

Honestly, this announcement marks a major change in the game itself. We're opening the game up and making it easier and more enjoyable for players.

Hopefully, this will make everyone's life a little better.

And hopefully, this will stop people from making inane GM calls about how they can't find a party and that FFXI is dying.

That'll give me time to deal with all the other inane GM calls.

Yay.

I'd be upset by that, but this update is just too awesome.

Plus, I'm very, very drunk.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Oct 04, 2008 11:10 pm  
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Rasagal
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The japanese don't "do" casual gaming.

They invented the art form of video games, and they are the f-ing masters of it.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Oct 04, 2008 11:11 pm  
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Krajin
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http://bannable-offenses.blogspot.com/2 ... -saga.html

Quote:
I figured I would wait until after the whole issue was resolved before talking about this story.

When Pandemonium was introduced, he was designed as the new epic boss, the new truly awesome ass kicker.

This was the original intention behind Absolute Virtue, but we got kind of sick of telling people "the answer is in the video".

You've probably also heard about this guy in the news recently as a group of players tried to take him down and only managed to get their asses severely kicked.

Both in game and in real life.

Yeah. He's awesome.

But before we get to that part, we need to go all the way back to how the whole funny saga started.

See, in order to spawn Pandemonium Warden and actually get the chance to fight him, you have to obtain a Pandemonium Key and trade it to a ??? point.

The key is very hard to obtain and, when the Warden was first added, the key was seen as one of the rarest items in game.

Truly something incredibly valuable.

As you progressed through the quest and obtained your key, game dialogue explained where to take the key. It gave a vague description of where to find the ??? point.

You probably think that this seems all very straight forward.

We thought the same thing.

Shortly after the whole thing was introduced, an endgame linkshell managed to obtain their very own Pandemonium Key.

Very impressive.

Then they took that key and traded it to a ??? point.

Incredibly impressive.

Except they traded it to the wrong ??? point.

Less impressive.

Now, when you trade an item to an unrelated ??? point in FFXI, you immediately get your item back and the game usually gives you a message that amounts to "that's the wrong item, you retard."

That didn't happen.

Instead, a goblin named ATNM Test spawned.

The endgame linkshell, no doubt overcome with anticipation, pounced on this new epic NM with vision of victory and glory dancing before their eyes.

It was a long and arduous battle.

Three seconds.

Maybe four.

It seems that instead of the truly awesome endgame boss they had expected to battle, they were served a low level goblin.

Oh... And they lost their key.

They were not as happy as you might expect.

One might say they were even a little grumpy.

The death threats they started sending through GM calls speak for themselves.

Now, it's at this point that I'd like to point out that the description of where to trade the key didn't even remotely correspond with the ??? point they traded it to.

Not even close.

It would be like me telling you to meet me near Yankee stadium and you deciding I meant somewhere in Texas.

Sure, Texas is a great place. I understand things are quite large there.

But that's not where I told you.

Yes, yes. I know Texas is a place, too. I get that.

Not the place.

So, they traded an incredibly valuable item to the wrong ??? point. That was their mistake.

This is the point where I would probably feed them all to a certain purple dragon, but, uncharacteristically, I was actually kind of rooting for them.

They were the first guys to really get their shit together and get down to business on this. And they did it to improve themselves, not so they could flood forums with "OMGLOL 1ST NA EVAH" bullshit.

That's cool with me.

I thought they were really nice guys.

Well... Until the death threats.

They also said some very unkind things about my mother.

Not necessarily untrue, mind you, but unkind.

Still, how could we handle the situation?

TO BE CONTINUED...

DUN DUN DUNNNNNNNNNNNNN!

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Oct 04, 2008 11:12 pm  
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http://bannable-offenses.blogspot.com/2 ... inued.html

Quote:
So, when last we left our hero, he was stuck in a dilemma.

On the one hand, a group of players had lost an item that was incredibly difficult to obtain and [GM]Dave actually felt a little sorry for them.

On the other hand, they were now making GM calls and that makes [GM]Dave angry. People who make GM calls get fed to a dragon.

What will our hero do?

Stay tuned tomorrow and...

Okay, okay. I'm writing.

Put the knife down.

What the hell are you going to do with a knife anyway? Stab your monitor?

You're lucky I still talk to you, you know.

Anyway, this is where the story became a little bit annoying for me. Once I learned the full story from the linkshell leaders, I was on their side.

They made a mistake, but the system is designed to keep that mistake from totally making you cry.

Yes, there was some crying.

Besides, I had been fairly impressed by how quickly they obtained their key. It takes a lot to impress me, so I was actually hoping they'd pull it off.

Sure, the goblin thing made me laugh, but I always laugh at the pain of others.

I'm like Bob Saget, but without the wacky side effects.

So, [GM]Dave was on their side. Actually, quite a few of the GMs were on their side.

This would be a simple fix, right?

The fact that you're reading this right now should tell you that was wrong.

The actual people in charge of the linkshell contacted the GMs properly and made a formal request for us to investigate.

That was the right thing to do. We love it when people actually ask us to investigate stuff worth investigating.

Plus, I get to wear my sunglasses and make mildly-retarded comments.

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But rather than wait quietly, while we conducted our investigation and moved the issue through the proper channels (believe it or not, we don't just hand out incredibly rare key items to anyone who just asks for them), many of the players involved started making GM calls.

LOTS of GM calls.

Then they posted the whole thing on a variety of forums.

Then OTHER PEOPLE started sending us even more GM calls.

Within days, we were absolutely flooded with calls from people who were nowhere even near their computer when this shit went down.

It was bad enough when people from the linkshell were sending us stupid GM calls. Then some guy from another server who was out of town that week had to start bitching about it.

What the hell was that about?

I mean people started sending us some nasty shit.

Those people were dealt with.

Any player that sent a message that started with "You have to..." ended up getting fed to Jormy and then banned.

He died of food poisoning three times.

Why would you start a message with "You have to..."?

I play video games for a living and I'm usually drunk before 10 am.

I don't have to do anything.

And why would you get belligerent?

It was weird enough that people who had nothing to do with the whole situation were sending GM calls about it. Then they started getting angry and insulting.

Why would you even do that?

From now on, if you want to get banned, just ask. Seriously, just send a GM call and say "Please ban me".

I'm not a plot kind of guy. When I watch porn, I just skip to the good parts.

I don't need a long or complex reason to ban you.

Just ask.

Once we actually had an opportunity to review the situation and discuss the matter with the linkshell leaders (and ban a bajillion people), we decided the best way to handle the situation was to return their key item and wish them good luck.

And they all lived happily ever after.

Next time: they did not all live happily ever after.

TO BE CONTINUED!

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Oct 04, 2008 11:13 pm  
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Krajin
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http://bannable-offenses.blogspot.com/2 ... luded.html

Quote:
Alternate Title: "Excuse me, waiter... There's a challenge in my game."

So, we ended up returning the linkshell's key and letting them take on Pandemonium Warden.

They were happy.

Unfortunately, I've come to notice that happiness is often short lived.

See, a ways back we created a boss named Absolute Virtue. This guy was an epic ass kicker and player's still haven't figured out how to fight him properly.

It's all in the video, guys.

Still, as AV grew a little stale, the devs came up with a newer, more challenging boss.

Hello, Pandemonium Warden.

This guy makes Absolute Virtue look like a four year old girl.

I'm not saying there's anything wrong with four year old girls. I'm sure they're very tough.

But if 18 people jumped a four year old girl with swords and magic and shit, that girl is going down.

Pandemonium Warden was designed as a real challenge. In order to defeat him, players would have to carefully devise the proper strategy and not just wail away on him like other monsters in the game.

Do you know what players hate?

A real challenge.

Now, if you ask a player if they like a challenge, they will tell you yes. They will tell you they enjoy a good challenge.

They are lying.

Players like things that are slightly harder than easy. They like being able to win.

Duh.

Sure, we can make it seem difficult. We can make it take slightly longer or maybe have slightly more complex requirements.

But only slightly.

When you actually face them with a real challenge, a true challenge, they get upset.

The first time an organized group tried to really take on Pandemonium Warden, it took them over 18 hours.

No, that is not a typo.

18 hours.

And they didn't even win.

They actually had to stop trying because people were getting physically ill and passing out.

Now, that... That's a challenge.

Yeah, Battletoads was a hard freakin' game. It was really, really hard.

But it never actually kicked your ass.

Literally.

That's progress, people. We actually have game bosses that beat the shit out of you for real.

Force feedback is so yesterday.

I will grant you... 18 hours is excessive for any boss battle. Expecting a group of people to coordinate and maintain a continuous play strategy and group dynamic for that long is insane.

Here's where an interesting question should be popping up.

What if they were wrong?

I'm sure they had this plan well thought out. They brought Black Mages and refreshers. They brought tanks.

They brought the guys with the pointy things.

But that shit is entirely pointless if that's not how you defeat that boss.

Imagine a level 75 casting fire on an extremely low level fire elemental.

That would be a long damned fight, wouldn't it?

Oh, yeah. He's casting magic.

Magic makes things go boom.

That'll totally work.

And yet... The damned elemental isn't going to die.

See, fire elementals aren't hurt when you cast fire.

They're made of fire.

Yes, you had a strategy.

That strategy was retarded.

You can obviously see why. You're casting fire on a fire elemental.

It's obvious that your strategy was flawed.

Here's the interesting thing, though... Just because it's not obvious, doesn't mean your plan isn't flawed.

After 18 hours, you'd assume someone would have said "You know, guys... Maybe we're doing this wrong."

No.

Instead, this became a huge source of news because SE designed a boss that takes more than 18 hours to defeat.

And now, because of that feedback, they're going to lower the difficulty of Pandemonium Warden.

Dumb him down if you will.

But what does that really prove? Will you still be proud when you beat him?

Sure, you might get some shiny new piece of equipment.

But can you really say you met the challenge?

Remember when you were a kid and you'd play a game with your Dad? Remember how he'd let you win because he loved you or didn't want to listen to you whine or something?

Does that make you feel proud that you won?

Hey... Maybe we should invent an olympics where everybody gets a medal!

I'll give you some time to get that joke.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Oct 05, 2008 1:23 am  
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Sinvelo

Joined: Fri Mar 14, 2008 11:18 am
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Location: Wa

Beware Rant...

I played FFXI for a LONG time before I played wow. I got full relic gear (still proud of that) got two jobs to 75 along with 8 other jobs to lvl 40 (as subs) and every other job the other 10 to lvl 20+ I had spend a grand total of over 215 days of game play thats more then 5100 hours. I had awsome gear for all my jobs, fought all the NM's (notorious monsters) and gotten some of the rarest most sought after gear in the game... I still give advice to some of my good friends from my end game LS (linkshell like a guild) and keep up with the story arc (That I think is much better then wow's)... And honestly as much as I like wow after playing the insain pace of FFXI, WoW is like cheese cake; cheap, soft, and easy to chew up. BUT that dont mean FFXI is better far from it. After playing wow (I got to 70 in wow with in 20 days, took me 112 days to get my first job to 75 in ffxi) I can say that the system makes much more sense, the GMs are much more helpful, the crafting system is way more simplistic, the drop rates are realistic and the game is MUCH more fun because of it. I miss FFXI and from time to time I think I should start my old character up again... then I think of the countless hours I would have to spend grinding my next job up to 75 cuz you dont get exp for anything other then killing shit, and you get 100-250 per kill needed around 30-50k exp PER lvl at higher lvls. I also think of the armor I would need to get, inorder to NOT be pimp but just to stand up and say look I dont suck ^^b atleast a year... of playing nearly every day. Best of all I would look forward to picking up my crafts but you dont get 1 skill point for doing something no you get .1 yes I said POINT 1 skill ups and thats IF your doing well. Crazy you might get .2 or .3 but thats SUPER rare. Yes to get a skill to 10 you need 100 skill ups and they have a timer so you have to wait 3 secs between each crafting that takes another 3 secs or if your lucky .1 ever 6 secs... or 1 point in 6 mins of none stop crafting... and you wont even come close to that LMAO. FFXI is a great game for HARDCORE players, for the most part I have to say that the age of FFXI players is more out of the 20s and up. Unlike WoW the slow pace and the fact you HAVE TO work with many other people to get ANYTHING done, assholes and kids dont tend to last very long lol they all come to WoW. It is a very fun game if you dont mind the shitty graphics (yes I think they suck for the most part) the fact you cant jump, swim or climb up a hill or even over a small rock in your way. FFXI is great but if you cant plant your ass infront of the comp for atleast 4 hours every day and all day on weekends... dont bother.

Thats my basic rant I have a lot more on the subject but thats all I will keep it to for now lol.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Oct 05, 2008 7:26 am  
Yvl9921

Joined: Wed Oct 01, 2008 1:06 pm
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Quote:
I had spend a grand total of over 215 days of game play thats more then 5100 hours.

Hell, I only had about 2100 hours. Then again, I deleted my first character, so it was probably closer to 3000.

Quote:
but you dont get 1 skill point for doing something no you get .1 yes I said POINT 1 skill ups and thats IF your doing well. Crazy you might get .2 or .3 but thats SUPER rare.

To be fair, leveling up one point in any craft is like leveling up a craft 5 times in WoW.

Quote:
unlike WoW the slow pace and the fact you HAVE TO work with many other people to get ANYTHING done, assholes and kids dont tend to last very long lol they all come to WoW.

The slow pace, plus the fact that when you first hit 50 they start periodically testing you every 5 levels to be sure you aren't an incompetent 12 year old.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 05, 2008 1:31 pm  
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Gendou
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My buddy has been trying to convert me to FFXI for years, but it sounds like a second job, not a game.
I want to play WoW to relax. I work full-time for a living. I don't need another job that I pay to work at.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 05, 2008 2:19 pm  
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Sinvelo

Joined: Fri Mar 14, 2008 11:18 am
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It pretty much is thats one of the reasons I left the game. I didnt even talk about the stresses that come with playing the game and OH there is a LOT of stress. Try camping a NM for 15 hours... and then when it spawns someone who walked up 20mins ago gets the claim... RAWR.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 10, 2008 12:55 am  

Como
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I fuckin LOVED my monk in FFXI, but alas I hated sitting for 2+ hours LFG for some damned EXP. Man if only I could find the best replacement in WoW... then again I DO play a shaman :)


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 10, 2008 3:52 am  
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Sinvelo

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I have a good friend that played a monk (now rouge/shamy here) in ffxi. I used to do monk burn pt's in krt that was some pimp exp, used get like chain 100s also did a couple whm burn pts those were fun but not nearly as rich in exp.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 05, 2009 12:31 pm  
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Quad
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ooooooh good ol FFXI oh how it took up so much free time... here is my FFXI rant.... um... i was a @#%& tard that had to pick ranger for class which ment i would spend about 2-3 hrs farming, playing the AH, and making my own arrows**BTW trade skills kicked ass in FFXI but also had tons of flaws**.... every time before i could even go out group... oh and the ranger got the worst job even i had to pull all the mobs to my group and if i got aggro from more than 1 guess who had to die for the group??? yeah this guy so one death was about an hr of straight grinding exp gone.... only thing i loved about that game is how much money you could make off people with a maxed out trade skill and some common sense..... i will say FFXI is my fav even with SOOOOOOOOO many flaws the core of the game just gave me a more realistic MMO exp if there can even be that but i remember FFXI giving me so many edge of my seat momments and some times it could down right scare me... fucking coffer keys... WoW made me feel like i was a wtfpwnstar but FFXI made me feel like i made something of myself with my own blood and sweat.... i cant wait till they come out with is successor with alot of needed fixes


62 rng 58 drk 48 nin 40 war only classes i can remember off the top of my head.... been out of the game for nearly 5 years now i was over 300hrs of play time i know i should have higher lvls but tradeskills took up most of my time like fishing and carpentry


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 05, 2009 12:47 pm  
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WTF QUAD!!!! U LIVE!!

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